Go Coach Yourself!

How to Navigate Life After a Layoff

• Ryan Reichert-Estes, CPCC and Vic Smith, CPCC • Season 1 • Episode 7

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In this episode of Go Coach Yourself!, Vic and Ryan delve into the challenging topic of layoffs. Drawing from personal experiences and industry insights, they discuss the emotional toll of being laid off and provide practical steps for processing those emotions. They highlight the importance of rediscovering one’s strengths and values, and offer actionable advice on reclaiming your agency to redesign your life and routines. They also emphasize the benefits of seeking external perspectives and the role of coaching in navigating these transitions. Tune in for a thoughtful exploration of how to move forward and build the incredible life you deserve after a layoff.

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Hosts:

Ryan Reichert-Estes, StackRise Coaching | LinkedIn | Insta: @stackrisecoaching

Vic Smith, WhistleSmith.co | LinkedIn | Insta: @vic_bk

Ryan:

So Vic, we have a serious topic today. we're going to talk about layoffs, but before we start, I have an observation that I just wanted to check in with you about,

Vic:

What's that?

Ryan:

so you and I have both been through quite a few layoffs, both at our time at Nike and within our separate organizations that we've been part of, right,

Vic:

Yes, definitely no fun.

Ryan:

while this isn't a light topic, I do think that there's one thing that almost all of us can agree on, whether you've been impacted by a layoff or you're somebody who's been left behind. And it's that moment when you're looking around after the fact and noticing that one person that you're like, Really? How is it even possible that you're still here?

Vic:

I know what you mean. I don't necessarily want anyone to go through the layoff experience. But then you consider like how often it happens that one person never makes sense. You're like, how is Bob from finance still here? Like, how is that the case? It's just bonkers.

Ryan:

So if you're out there and you're thinking of that one person that seems to be somehow layoff proof, despite being an asshole or completely incompetent we see you. you. are not alone. And you're right. It doesn't make any sense.

Vic:

And karma is a bitch and it is coming for you.

Ryan:

Sorry, sorry Bob from

Vic:

Sorry, Bob God, I hope there's no Bobs in finance listening to this

Ryan:

Nothing against Bobs. Nothing against Finance. We love you too. Welcome to Go Coach Yourself, a podcast to help you get unfucked and build the incredible life you deserve. We're Vic and Ryan, two certified coaches trying to change the world one conversation at a time.

Vic:

So where should we start with this conversation about navigating a layoff?

Ryan:

Great question. let's start with the bigger picture. Why does this even matter right now? Layoffs have been rampant in 2023 and 2024. By the time we even get around to publishing this episode, I'm sure there will have been many more. The numbers are staggering, impacting millions of people worldwide. this isn't just a statistic, like it's real people. People's families. This is seriously a tough reality. A study reported by Harvard Business Review, found that 40 percent of Americans have been laid off or terminated from a job at least once. And nearly half, 48 percent of people in America, have layoff anxiety. So even if you've not been impacted, By a layoff in the last two years, you certainly know or will know at least one person who has, It's got to be impacting every household in some way. Yeah.

Vic:

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. The emotional toll can be completely overwhelming. And it always makes me think when I see These huge organizations laying off hundreds and often thousands of people. It always makes me think of the CEO at Nintendo his name was Satoru Iwata, I think this guy is legendary. he led Nintendo from 2002 to 2014. And he did not believe In layoffs, He thought they caused too much disruption. He thought the brain power that it required to think about being laid off, to worry about your job, being there to, think about the impact it would have on your colleagues. He believed that stunted innovation and creativity, like to the point that at one point when Nintendo wasn't doing very well, this is what happened. this human took a 50 percent pay cut, so they wouldn't have to do that. And I think there's a nobility in that, of course, but also, part of this is, you're the CEO, and so, stand up and be counted, just like you want your employees to be. But also, if you look at the trajectory of Nintendo, this was when the Wii happened, I just think, There's a lesson to be learned there. Mmm.

Ryan:

I've read a couple of articles about that as well. And to your point, the Wii wasn't super successful, but then they came back and produced the Nintendo switch had breath of the wild, which is one of my favorite Nintendo games, which was like the best selling game they've ever done. So, I mean, there's clearly some connection there between. Not stunting growth and innovation, like you said, to helping people feel trust and feel cared about. Couldn't

Vic:

Yeah, And I think, sometimes when this happens, when you're caught in layoffs, I think about a lot of my Nike friends right now who, either have been affected by a layoff, or, I mean, everyone's affected by a layoff, but they've either been, laid off, or they're the ones left behind. It's quite common to feel this. profound sense of loss, like a loss of control, a loss of identity, and it can be really challenging to experience and to navigate.

Ryan:

Yeah, so true. so before we start to dig into what we want to share about this experience.. I also want to plug our friends podcast, Francesca and Mel, over at Your Work Friends. They've done a great two part piece on layoffs that cover the why and the how they happen, as well as practical tips if you've been impacted by a layoff. So go listen to those and share them with anybody that could use that help too. we'll link those in the show notes below.

Vic:

Yeah, they were two like really solid episodes and I think a great place for more context. What I really appreciate about how Francesca and Mel bring those episodes to life is it's no bullshit. They are just talking about things we all experience in the world in a real talk way. And one thing that really landed with me was this idea that so often as individuals, we hold blame or the burden for getting laid off. You know, we kind of feel that deeply like it's personal. But in actual fact, the layoff is almost never about the individual. Which certainly calls into question a lot, these corporate people first practices, and the approaches that you hear about, but ultimately, it's not about you, it's actually them. Let's start to unpack what our listeners or their friends and families. might experience is they navigate the ripples beyond the practical and the logistics of being impacted by a layoff.

Ryan:

Perfect. Okay. So, To start, let's talk about processing the emotions that you mentioned before. That feeling of loss or agency, the loss of control or a loss of identity. so the first step in figuring those out is really acknowledging them. And it's okay if you feel anger, Sadness, even relief. Like you might have a ton of difficult emotions to deal with. You might have just a few, or you might not have any at all. To share a personal example of this, I was actually just laid off this past summer. And while there was some shock, it also was honestly the most amazing gift at the same time. It really allowed me to focus fully on Stack Rise to doing this podcast with you offering Ignite the Spark my new course. And so whether you're feeling a sense of relief or a sense of grief, giving yourself permission to feel those things is actually really crucial.

Vic:

It totally is. You know, I remember when I got the text from you to tell me that you'd been laid off. And I immediately stopped. I was like, Oh! Oh my God. Wait a minute. Hold the phone. And, you know, I asked you, like, do you want to chat? And I remember I was in the UK. I was like, hey, you know, like, I can stop what I'm doing. Like, do you want to chat? And you were like, actually, no, I'm good. I was like, hang on. It's like, it's a big thing and it feels like really weird. And you were like, no, actually I'm, I'm really good. And I was like both. surprised but also delighted because I knew that this aligned with what you wanted to do and how you've been talking for quite some time now. How do you live more into your purpose? How do you do your own thing and ignite the spark? you had these bigger, longer term plans and, you know, you now could take the time that you needed in your head to to process and to get to that place in a way that worked for you. And you know, really, I think that's the most important takeaway here that it's about creating space for that process and taking the time. So that can feel quite counterintuitive. Right. I have lots of, lots of friends right now and I say lots because I can count them on more than two hands and it feels like lots to me of, you know, friends who've recently been laid off and their initial response is, I just lost my job. I need to find a new one. And, it's been shown in the research that processing the emotional tolls. of a layoff can help you be even stronger when you do start to re engage in what's next and gives you greater purpose and clarity on what does come next.

Ryan:

Yeah, whole like, we've gotta slow down to go fast thing. But it is. It's just hard to get our heads around in the moment. you mentioned like we're talking about processing here and process is one of the principles that we actually studied in co active coaching. so I'm curious, can you share a little bit more about some of the keys that you would want to share with listeners around what process is like?

Vic:

And, you know, to summarize a bit of what we do, there's a few important aspects. I think we can, potentially break this down into three steps. the first step is to really identify the emotions that you're grappling with. if it's a layoff, these could be shame, betrayal, fear, rejection. it could be excitement, freedom, relief, but putting a name on it is super powerful. that's the first place to start. So that would be step one, identify the emotion. step two is hold space to explore that emotion. make time to reflect on what it is, what it feels like. if you could describe it, really describe that feeling, what would you say? How would you describe it? That would be step two, step three is look for opportunities to integrate something that will help you. this could be a realization, a lesson, a reminder, how do you take that feeling, that emotion and integrate it so it doesn't feel as if you're holding it at arm's length and looking at it, but it feels as if it becomes a part of you and is integrated with all the other experiences that you have. Honestly, Ryan, you and I know this, but that can be really challenging to do on your own. I'd recommend working with a coach to really get into it. Ryan and I are certified co active coaches. in our, what is coaching episode, we talked about the amount of coaches that are out there, the different types of coaches that you can work with. often in a moment like this. It can help to have somebody guide you through what that process is.

Ryan:

Yeah, for sure.

Vic:

And one of the last things I'd add here is that, I feel that the act of journaling can really help us process emotions. It's incredibly helpful to write down your feelings, your fears, your hopes. it's a way to untangle your identity from your job. I've found that sometimes people just need to see their thoughts on paper to start making sense of them. It's almost like the act of writing them, this stream of consciousness, forces your brain to make sense of them. often things will come up that wouldn't normally come up if you were just thinking about it on your own. sharing it with somebody as in processing it with a coach or writing it down can help with that process.

Ryan:

I love that. that's a really helpful way to think about that. And I want to reemphasize both that point of, you know, really processing it that way, but then also the importance of naming it. And how that first step that you mentioned is actually easier to accomplish when you're writing things down or actually talking about them with somebody. So, it's such a useful practice, though, because, you know, the minute you start to shine a light on what that experience is, then it becomes so much easier to start examining it or exploring it and figuring out what you want to take away. We've got a tool to. Think about your emotions and help you name them. We'll link this in the show notes, so that you can use that if you need some support with thinking through some of the emotions that you might be feeling.

Vic:

the things I love about that tool is that it breaks down The emotion of anger into what type of anger is this your feeling? So it almost like for me, I love how it drops down the emotions so that, you know, I'm feeling angry actually becomes, I'm feeling disappointed. I'm feeling frustrated. I'm feeling, you know,

Ryan:

Ah, yeah, that's, and that was one of the, like, most important things that I feel I took away from, well, we're delving into therapy here now a little bit on this topic, but, something I learned from my therapist was, like, anger is always a secondary emotion, and so, yeah, digging into it to figure out, like, what's actually behind it, it's so helpful, so helpful. So now that you've made some time to explore those emotions, the next thing that we want to talk about is this idea of rediscovering yourself. What are your core values? What are the strengths that you bring to the table? an exercise that I love is writing down your accomplishments from all of the experiences that you've just had at the company. And highlighting. How each of those experiences were brought to life because of your values or because of your strengths. So like really connecting the things that you did back to you in some meaningful way.

Vic:

This is a great exercise and one of the reasons why I love it is that often in this moment of a layoff, the feeling can be, what did I do wrong? I wasn't good enough. My performance didn't meet the expectations, very rarely is a layoff performance based by the way. but one of the things about this exercise is that it forces you to stay in. The positive strength area, like what makes you good at what you do, what drives your success. And if this feels a little difficult to get off the ground, don't hesitate to ask other people for their perspective. Often we don't see our strengths as clearly as others do. And so friends, family, former colleagues, if you had a good relationship with your past boss. Reach out to them. They can all provide valuable insights into what makes you unique.

Ryan:

So true. And piggybacking on that idea, the idea that you would reach out to former colleagues or even your former boss. I feel so many people feel like that's like a no go zone. And After a layoff happens. I just want to call out that that's like a hundred percent, not true. Like if you had relationships with those people, like keep in touch, that's a super important thing to do too.

Vic:

Yeah, I think often being on the other side of a layoff where I've been Bob from finance, you know, it can feel quite, upsetting that this person has, a layoff. This team, this bunch of individuals have been in your life day in, day out for the last 12 months, two years, 10 years, 15 years in some cases, and then all of a sudden they're just gone and so I have on often occasion, I've reached out and, extended that hand. And so if you're on the other side of that and have been laid off, reach out, I can guarantee those people want to hear from you.

Ryan:

I want to share a personal example here that I think illustrates this really nicely. And it's not about a layoff, but it is about, transitioning out of an experience that I think is important. So a few years ago, my husband chose to wind his cartography business down called Maphazardly. He made artistic maps for people and was able to capture their stories and adventures and highlight the experiences that they had had in life through maps of different places that they enjoyed and appreciated. He found that super fulfilling. but after 10 years, it was just time for something new. And so at this one point, very early on, as he was processing that, he was struggling to resolve this decision about moving forward. And, you know, we talked a bit about his values. I helped him identify some of the things that felt most important to him, which were things like adventure, exploration, discovery, so that he could use those as ways to create and ideate, you know, and look at the alignment of what he wanted to do next. So there was this really cool moment though, where he had this realization That ties to what we're talking about here and he had believed that the work that he did for Maphazardly, his company, allowed him to tap into those values and that created joy for him. But instead, it was in that conversation that we had, he actually recognized that he was the reason. that those values were expressed through the work he was doing, not the other way around. and so having that outside perspective, I think can be really valuable to helping you identify what those things are for yourself.

Vic:

that is such a good example for multiple reasons. the first is that it really makes me think about something I believe we both experienced with coaching clients, and others we've talked to. After, being laid off it's, sometimes quite hard to separate who you are from the company, from their purpose and their brands. the work or the other people that you've left. I love in your example, it's about identifying what are those unique pieces You bring that you also take to the next thing. Gallup actually found that in the U. S. 55 percent of workers get a sense of identity from their job. And so this, what we're talking about here is slightly different to your job aligning to your purpose. And so Ryan and I have done a Go Coach Yourself episode on purpose. And what we're talking about here isn't how your job aligns to your purpose. We're talking about how your identity is tied up in the job that you do. Who you do it for. Not the type of work that you do. And so an example of that might be your, you work on the community impact team at Nike, which is you are making sports accessible to kids in communities across the world. Now you can do that work anywhere the piece about that is that in that job at Nike, you're making sports accessible to communities. But the purpose piece of that is about making kids lives better. And you can do that, doesn't have to be through sport, doesn't have to be through Nike. It could be through multiple organizations, organizations that don't even exist right now. Hell, sort your own. You know, kind of like live into your purpose, but it's about separating those pieces of who you are and the job that you do for an organization. And I think that your example there with Christopher and Maphazardly is he's able to bring those values to life in the job. But that's not the only place, that's not the only job, that's not his identity. Those pieces, that identity of his, he takes to the next thing he does. And that's what I think our listeners should be thinking about.

Ryan:

Yeah. So good. And yeah, we see this a lot. Uh, and I know we've both experienced this, through working for an inspirational brand like Nike, it's so easy to get caught up in that magic and feel that there's this really special alignment between why you're here and what the brand's purpose is. And when folks leave those types of places, whether it's through a layoff or even On their own decision, it can be really hard to make that transition if they're not taking the time to, really think through these things. I think of, because I know you love Lego, I love the idea here. If it's like, you've got something that you've then decided to take apart and like, put back together in a different way.

Vic:

Yes. Yeah, I absolutely love that. Because I think that, Ultimately, the thing that makes the organisation that just laid you off unique is you. I find this super common and I think we see it in many organizations. And there are absolutely things that you bring that may have been amplified by the company or the work that you were doing, but ultimately what makes them unique is you. You're the unique thing about it and it can take time to shift your mindset and your confidence to a place where you own those things and you've integrated them into who you are. And these can absolutely be rooted in past experience or trauma, and if that's the case, we encourage you to explore that with a licensed therapist. But something we can coach on is this idea of limiting self beliefs. there's a misconception that things like positive thinking, pushing through, or faking it, are ways to help you navigate these, but you really have to take time to slow down a little bit. to notice, to reflect, to challenge, and to rebuild. And we highlight some of these in our episode on imposter syndrome, which we'll link to in the show notes. And you know, also stay tuned for a future episode on the saboteurs, where limiting self belief will get a deep dive. But ultimately, the piece here is about how do you recognize the unique aspects that you bring still exist within you when you step away from that organization.

Ryan:

Yeah. And that's a great reference too to the imposter syndrome episode. I'm thinking about the post it that you talked about having and those questions of how likely is that and how true is that? So in like practicing both of these questions is a great way to help start redirecting those unhelpful thoughts. We've also got a couple of other episodes on uncovering your values and discovering your purpose. And so any of these can be really helpful because as you get clear on those things, you'll start to notice where they come to life and where they're happening. more often. And so you'll be able to start practicing into them more frequently. When you've got clarity on who you really are, you'll start to see those instances where you're having a really positive impact.

Vic:

Yeah. And I, you know, I would reiterate again that if you're struggling with that, reach out and ask somebody what they see in you. Ask somebody to help you with that thinking process, with that reflection, with that noticing. Okay, after processing and rediscovering, the next step is reclaiming your agency. So this is the moment to redesign your life and routines. have you pushed aside or deprioritized? Now's the time to bring those things back into focus. You are in charge of your own destiny.

Ryan:

Fuck yes. Yeah, because whether it's a hobby, spending more time with your family, creating better self care habits, you're right. This is your chance to redefine what success looks like for you and, figuring out what you want from the future. this happened to me back when we were working together at Nike, and it is ultimately what really pushed me to become a coach, because I wanted more agency. I wanted to feel that sense of control. So there were a lot of layoffs happening at that time. And quite honestly, it was exhausting to feel that constant state of limbo of like, not being able to make progress on anything and worrying about whether or not we'd be impacted. Exactly what you were talking about in that Nintendo example, like the ripple effect of that anxiety. And so while I'd known for a while that I wanted to get certified as a coach, I realized that that was the moment that I needed to reclaim that control. and so while it wasn't a response to being laid off, but it definitely helped me to process and put energy into places that helped me divert the anxiety or divert the worry, in a way that was. How more helpful in honoring my values personally. So I would encourage our listeners to like, think about what are those things that you quote unquote save for later? determine if now is the right time to take some action. Like, look for those moments when you've said those things, because that's, that's the thing you should then reconsider. and even if you aren't impacted by a layoff, you know, check in with yourself because if you keep track of what those things are, you'll know when you need them. And you also might just reconsider whether or not today or right now is the right time to actually take action on these things.

Vic:

And your journey is such a great example of what we're talking about. It's about recognizing that the end of one chapter can be the start of something new and potentially even more fulfilling. And I, you know, we're doing an episode here on layoffs and I would love to share the story of when I experienced my first layoff. I was 24 years old. I was doing a job that I absolutely loved. Like I would get out of bed at four o'clock in the morning and drive for four hours just to do this job. Like I love this job and myself and my colleagues were invited to this big meeting in London and I was living in the Northwest at the time. And, you know, we weren't able to stay over the night before. so, I got up at like 5 a. m. and drove for four hours to London to attend this meeting. And within the first 10 minutes, we knew something wasn't right. And, you could feel it. they told us we were having a restructure and then they handed out the new org chart. Now bear in mind there's about 50 people in this room And we're all sat in these like around these round tables It's set up for like a venue like we're at a wedding or something And they hand out these new org structures and my whole team is not on it We're literally just not on there. We're nowhere on this on this Documents and I remember looking at this piece of paper and thinking, oh, there's been a mistake. Like, I'm not sure, So it turns out that our team had been eliminated. This was how they were telling us in a room with, you know, kind of 45 other people, and then immediately they were taking us one by one to have a conversation about. The benefits are exit package, like immediately. And I was one of the first people to be called and I was like 24 years old. And whilst I am quite self aware and I was quite self aware at 24 years old, I was not ready for this. And so I spent a whole meeting, just crying. I couldn't tell you anything that happened in the meeting. It was a meeting with a guy I'd never met before. And so I literally was just like, I don't know you. I'm like sobbing my heart out in front of you. You know, like, oh, it was just like, what? And then I remember leaving the hotel. It was a hotel we, we met in and going out onto the street and just calling my dad and being just like telling my dad about, you know, I've lost my job and just like crying in the street and him being like, it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. But, you know, everything's going to be fine. That's what my dad does all the time. He's got this amazing capacity to just be like, this is going to be fine. Don't even worry about it. I then had to drive home. You know, my dad was like, hey, should I get on the train and, and come and get, because he could tell that was like really shook. But what, what that experience taught me, aside from so much about myself how I respond in these moments, was I am actually not in control of that. Whether I lose my job or not is not something in my control when a layoff, a reorg, a restructure is happening. And I decided in that moment I never wanted to feel this way again. Like I never wanted to feel that everything about myself was wrapped up in the identity of my job. And I started at that point to create these like two, pathways that work together at the same time, one was about my job, my development within my job. And the other was how did I develop as a professional in the world that I wanted to work in? So the next time this thing happened, I would just come off the track, get onto the like personal development track, keep moving until. The next job came, but I would have better thoughts and intention and understanding of myself, of what I could offer to the world, like what my experiences were for the next job. and in that moment of first finding out about it, I just felt like. What have I done wrong? Am I just not good at my job? Do they just, you know, they just don't see a need for me. And it was quite heartbreaking. but I look back on it now and I think, yeah, that was one of those moments that at the time was really horrid. But actually I learned so much and was able to help others as I processed it and moved forward.

Ryan:

Yeah, oh, for sure. I, well, first off, like, thank you for sharing that. What a shitty, what a shitty organization to do something like that to you. Like, I just want to, like, give 24 year old Vic, like, the biggest hug

Vic:

ha, ha ha, yeah. She's had lots, let me tell you. I've

Ryan:

yeah.

Vic:

lots of hugs along the way, yes.

Ryan:

Good, and then just, like, I love that idea and the analogy you used of having almost, like, this model of two tracks. So I've got my track that's running through my job today. And I've got my track that's running through what I want out of the broader sense of my career How, yeah, whether you're impacted by a layoff right now, like this is a great time to be having this conversation with yourself, or you haven't done this and, you're maybe not worried about a layoff today, but like do some of this insightful work now and help future you not have any of those abrupt moments. So I think this is a great reminder to all of us, you know, regardless of where we are, that this is really important work to do. All right. So before we wrap this all up, let's leave our listeners with some practical tips and close us out with a few things that they can do. So the first thing is take time to process your emotions, write them down, do some journaling about what you're thinking, what you're feeling. Talk with other people you trust.

Vic:

Second, seek perspectives from others around you as a way to see your strengths and the impact that you have. Take time to write down your accomplishments and connect them to your values and strengths. And this will help reinforce what you bring in terms of value to whatever place you go to.

Ryan:

And third, engage your creative self to redesign your routines, habits, schedules, your growth trajectories, you know, make space for the things that are most important for you. And we would recommend that the very first thing on that list is taking care of yourself. design your routines to prioritize your wants and needs. This is ultimately your chance to create a life that truly reflects who you are. Being laid off is not the end of your story, as we've mentioned. It's a chapter, and it can lead to new beginnings. And so, we're here with you, and you have the strength to move forward.

Vic:

so, that's us and our take on how to best navigate the journey after a layoff. We hope you've found some value here and we hope that you'll share it with others who might benefit from some additional support. thanks for joining us on Go Coach Yourself. We'll see you next time. Have you seen that Insta thing about I'm looking for a guy in finance 6'5 Trust fund, blue eyes Have you seen that? I'm looking for Bob in finance 6'5 Trust fund, blue eyes

Ryan:

Layoff proof. Oh my god, okay.

Vic:

That's gotta be an outtake, that one

People on this episode

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Ryan Reichert-Estes, CPCC

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Vic Smith, CPCC

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